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  #1  
Old 08-18-2007, 03:19 PM
Sykoi Sykoi is offline
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Default What if the Romans were never defeated?

  • Running water
  • Advanced aqueduct systems that carried an incredible amount of water
  • A main city with anywhere between 500,000 to 14 MILLION people
  • Multi-story apartment buildings
  • A quality of life that rivals today's
  • The invention of roads
  • Advanced heating systems that heated entire bath houses, up to 120F
  • Public fountains with constant running water, which helped cool the air
  • Mass production methods
  • Advanced glass blowing methods that are still in use today
  • Indoor plumbing
  • Technological innovations that rival 19th and 20th century technology

This is just a small list of some of the things the Romans created, improved upon, or just plain used, that were lost after the collapse of their empire due to barbarians, and lead poisoning. Clean running water for instance, was lost when the Roman empire fell - and eventually led to the plague. Nearly everything the Romans were known for, was lost when their empire fell.

If these inventions were never lost, and the Romans nor their life style never died off, what do you think life would be like today?
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Old 08-18-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

I would be a voluntary gladiator *nod*

Public restrooms would not have private stalls, nor would they be divided by gender. Awkward? You decide.
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Old 08-18-2007, 08:29 PM
Akitora Akitora is offline
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Short answer - much the same I think - certainly anything the Romans developed was also developed elsewhere, and no one "major" culture seemed to advance quicker disproportionately to any other on the grand scheme of things
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Old 08-18-2007, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Depends at what point you change the history. Rome was on a major moral/political decline late into its history.

If we kept the mass population who only cared about orgies, and the emperors who have horse fetishes (not to mention all the insane emperors in latter roman history). Then I believe the world would be a pretty sick (and/or fun in a vile way) )

However it is my belief that Rome fell from the enemy within. There was too much corruption, too much interest in personal affairs than with the running of the state etc.

If the enemy within was removed (thus allowing Roman to continue and thrive past the 400AD~500AD mark) I believe you'd see a lot more Christianity (Romeís official religion in itís final 150years) and possible no Islamic Caliphate. I believe that the Arab region would come under Roman control in order to better position it self against the empires east Mesopotamia. With no caliphate, there would be no future Arab nations (hense no religious wars that would lead to new inventions, and regime changes. The arabs where the ones who invited such things as Algebra and numerics such as we know it.)

So many things wouldn't have happened, and assuming Rome could expand past Europe by the golden horde invasions, I don't believe we'd have many of the things we take for granted today. Because so much we invent/build upon is for militaristic purpose. If Rome was to survive, they would have to conquer their enemies to bring peace. With peace comes neglect. With neglect comes weakness, and with weakness comes downfall. Then we'd be right back to the enviable... Romeís demise.
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Old 08-19-2007, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

At the same time though in peace people are able to invent things that do not necessarily have a military benefit. You give them more time to think, instead of sending them into battle. So we may still have many inventions just more towards the betterment of society instead of warfare.
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Old 08-19-2007, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

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Originally Posted by moses View Post
At the same time though in peace people are able to invent things that do not necessarily have a military benefit. You give them more time to think, instead of sending them into battle. So we may still have many inventions just more towards the betterment of society instead of warfare.
like what?
rome had a mass population because of war, if i'm not mistaken 60% of rome's population where slaves.

with large numbers of people they had to find ways to keep things sanitary etc

in the end things are never for peace.
tell me one thing that is for peace that isn't for or from war.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Cake.

Chocolate cake is not for war.

BUT i agree with a lot of the points that Zorbon makes, no matter what happened, and no matter how far they came in history, eventually they would have fell. Just like one day the great powers of today will fall, not because of an outside attack, but because of the 'enemy within'.

My view is that the bigger the power, the less likely it will fall as a result of an alien factor.
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Old 08-19-2007, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Quote:
However it is my belief that Rome fell from the enemy within. There was too much corruption, too much interest in personal affairs than with the running of the state etc.
Lets also remember sheer ego. The Romans clearly felt that a bunch of uncouth barbarians could not defeat them until it was too late for them to do anything about it. Yes, Rome could lose battles on the frontier. The Romans lost almost as much as they won. Even Julius Caesar got a major stomping during his grand Gaul campaign. Octavius Augustus' nephew lost three whole legions in an ambush in the forests of Germania. Craccus, one of the Second Triumvirate, lost to the Parthians in the worst Roman military disaster in history resulting in the death of 20,000 Romans and his own execution. Mark Antony lost to these same opponents in a campaign that was nearly as bad.

Rome wasn't as good at winning then it was at rebounding or winning at just the right time. This is a testament to their organizational skills, however with the rise in corruption and regionalism and when they stopped taking their foreign opponents seriously, this organization fell apart to the ruin of the Western Roman Empire.
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Where do you get the impression that romans made the first roads? Let's remember that most of the world's greatest achievements were made in Asia, both minor and major. Gunpowder was invented in China, are we forgetting how amazing those little things that go boom are? Are they not truly a miracle of modern science, now that was a leap, and let us remember that the cities of the Roman Empire were supplied with water through aqueducts, not really the best way to get water though miraculous for the time. Pump houses with pipes like roots from a grand tree, perhaps maple, connected to the aqueducts supplied the "constant" as you put it, water supply. Now I for one see a huge flaw in many of these things, if you destroy one thing you will undoubtedly cause mass panic and possibly destruction. As vain peoples go I would have to put the Romans very high on the list, though I cannot name a "victor" I would have to say the United States is the most spoiled country that I know of, at least the only one that's still in existence (I live in New York state my friends). Now onto "barbarians" this word comes from a Greek word which I have no clue how to spell and probably can't be spelled in English anyway, that means "a person that does not speak Greek", now the Romans took this word and used it, slightly varied in pronunciation, language and meaning and took it as A person who is not a Roman citizen. So we're onto "barbarian" technology, the composite bow a Mongolian weapon used on horseback by the Huns, this weapon was superior to the average Western European longbow and it's only true flaw was that its average of seven layers came apart when it would rain.
Onto the Gaulish folk we go, these men were not what we think of today as barbarians, no they used longswords and chain mail, how "barbaric" is that?
As for the Franks oh my friend the Francisca... not sure if I spelled that right, but the Francisca was a weapon to be feared, a one to three pound head on a throwing axe that could, even as a melee (sorry I don't have a European keyboard) weapon could devastate a shield.

But I conclude, the Romans would have been defeated no matter what happened, with the praetorians selling the throne to the highest, and possibly least sane bidder it wouldn't have lasted long.
And let's not forget some of their leaders, I haven't much more time so i will leave you with a remembrance of the Roman emperor that made a hobby of CASTRATING HIMSELF!!! Although I can't remember his name for the life of me.
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: What if the Romans were never defeated?

Just play some of the Civilization games and find out.
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