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  #21  
Old 12-15-2007, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Dug yourself a hole there didn't you?
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2007, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moses View Post
Well at the same time the Japanese don't have a race to be racist about then *shrug*

Also the dictionary defines race as:



So technically a new race is born like every generation.

also I do believe the Irish are an ethnic group, as ethnicity is defined as such.



With ethnic meaning


Which it would definitely seem the Irish fall into.
By your entire definition, 'Australian' is a race. When I talk of race, I refer to racial genetics, which the Japanese are most certainly a race and 'Irish' is not. The Japanese have been isolated for so long they have become a distinct race in their own right. Don't try to weasel your way out of your ridiculous argument by trying to throw the 'definition bone' because it's extremely tacky and protrays little intellect on the matter.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2007, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

I didn't try to weasel my way out. But you need to better define what you mean. Using the term race indicates exactly what I said. Also pulling your site that says that Irish isn't race never confirmed that Japanese was one either. If you could, please supply a link to that. I didn't look too deep for one so I don't know if there is one there. Also according to your arguement about Japanese being Isolated how are you refering to that? Cause I would say Australia did in fact have a bit of Isolation. Sure there were trade ships and new criminals being added but there also was a distinct race there that evolved out of the people there, mainly British but also others. But in the end, yes there was a distinct people there.

Also... its looking like the Irish have a very distinct gene setup and is somewhat considered isolated itself.

Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Irish geneticists have used surnames and the male Y chromosome to reconstruct a one thousand year-old genetic map of Ireland that shows the Irish really are a race apart.
Quote:
"Ireland has been relatively untouched by this and the other great demographic movements because of its location. That gives us the ability to look at the west and surnames and to get a snapshot of what early European genetics may have been like," Bradley said.
cited from here: http://www.rense.com/politics6/irishrace.htm
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2007, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Quote:
Also pulling your site that says that Irish isn't race never confirmed that Japanese was one either.
No, it doesn't. However I was using it to show that Irish isn't a race, which it isn't.

Quote:
The Keltic Nordid people arrived in the British Isles no more than four thousand years ago, and that's nothing on the evolutionary time scale. The Irish are an ethnic group because they have a language and everything else that makes up a culture. But race is strictly biological and they don't have that.
Quote:
If you could, please supply a link to that. I didn't look too deep for one so I don't know if there is one there. Also according to your arguement about Japanese being Isolated how are you refering to that? Cause I would say Australia did in fact have a bit of Isolation. Sure there were trade ships and new criminals being added but there also was a distinct race there that evolved out of the people there, mainly British but also others. But in the end, yes there was a distinct people there.
Oh, c'mon. Japan has been isolated for thousands of years without any immigration, Australia has been almost open borders to immigrants for less 200 years. You're really trying to be awkward If I really need to provide evidence that Japanese is an ethnic group, have you ever heard ethnic American, ethnic Australian, or ethnic Canadian? No, because it's ridiculous, the three nations are largely immigrant nations, with the exception of the native indiginous peoples, are not genetically unique. Han Chinese, Korean, and Japanese are ethnic groups, because they are the indiginous people of those lands, they are genetically unique.

http://www.indexmundi.com/japan/ethnic_groups.html
http://www.indexmundi.com/australia/ethnic_groups.html

Quote:
Japan Ethnic groups-
Ethnic groups: Japanese 98.5%, Koreans 0.5%, Chinese 0.4%, other 0.7%

Australia Ethnic groups-
Ethnic groups: white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%
Notice, even though 'white' is a very general term, it doesn't say 'Australian'? While even though it could have said 'asian' as the primary ethnic group in Japan, instead it said 'Japanese' because they are a unique genetic group.
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  #25  
Old 12-16-2007, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

As a by stander in this debate, Andi does get a point with ethnic groups (he owned you)
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2007, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

I never said that Japanese wasn't an ethnic group, in fact I said they were. I said they weren't a race (which is true if you say that the Irish aren't a race because they are as much as the Japanese are).

Quote:
Oh, c'mon. Japan has been isolated for thousands of years without any immigration, Australia has been almost open borders to immigrants for less 200 years. You're really trying to be awkward If I really need to provide evidence that Japanese is an ethnic group, have you ever heard ethnic American, ethnic Australian, or ethnic Canadian? No, because it's ridiculous, the three nations are largely immigrant nations, with the exception of the native indiginous peoples, are not genetically unique. Han Chinese, Korean, and Japanese are ethnic groups, because they are the indiginous people of those lands, they are genetically unique.
Yes I know their are no ethnic American, Australian or Canadian groups because as you said these are all immigration countries. But there are ethnic Irish groups, ethnic American Indian groups, and ethnic Aboriginals. An ethnic group is not defined so much of where you are from its just who you are. What your culture is, how you speak and your language, religion sometimes plays into it, racial does as well.

Honestly you can't have race now a days. Its impossible. You either have to accept that every generation almost causes a new race or that their are none. Because when does a new race get born? How do you know that the Japanese aren't just the people that came before them (the Jomon (native people of the land and the Yayoi migrants from China and/or Korea)?

But I can see how the Japanese people could be racist about a misconceived race that they believe they are.

Also
Quote:
Quote:
Japan Ethnic groups-
Ethnic groups: Japanese 98.5%, Koreans 0.5%, Chinese 0.4%, other 0.7%

Australia Ethnic groups-
Ethnic groups: white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%
Notice, even though 'white' is a very general term, it doesn't say 'Australian'? While even though it could have said 'asian' as the primary ethnic group in Japan, instead it said 'Japanese' because they are a unique genetic group.
That just them being specific. There arent enough other ethnic groups to not be specific. For the Austrilian case instead of listing British, Irish etc they grouped them for the sake of keeping the statistic small. Its the same reason they put other on the end of the Japanese one. That way they don't have to list all the other ethnic groups out. Sure they could have done "Asian 99.4% Other .7%" but why not split it up? Its more informative that way. And those are the biggest ethnic groups there
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2007, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Quote:
Yes I know their are no ethnic American, Australian or Canadian groups because as you said these are all immigration countries.
Quote:
But there are ethnic Irish groups, ethnic American Indian groups, and ethnic Aboriginals. An ethnic group is not defined so much of where you are from its just who you are. What your culture is, how you speak and your language, religion sometimes plays into it, racial does as well.
Ethnic does refer to culture/language etc... by it's purest definition, however this would then create ethnic Australian/American/Canadian etc... groups since they have cultures and distinct dialects themselves. However the Irish albeit having a unique culture and language, aren't a unique genetic group.

Quote:
Honestly you can't have race now a days. Its impossible. You either have to accept that every generation almost causes a new race or that their are none. Because when does a new race get born? How do you know that the Japanese aren't just the people that came before them (the Jomon (native people of the land and the Yayoi migrants from China and/or Korea)?
By 'race' we talk of genetics, the Japanese, Han Chinese, Koreans, Mongolians etc... all have unique genetic characteristics, as can be seen in their vast physical differences.

Quote:
But I can see how the Japanese people could be racist about a misconceived race that they believe they are.
The Japanese are a unique genetic 'race' as I've said time and time again.

(Although I do feel uncompfortable talking of genetic 'race' since I am fundamentally against defining humans into different historical causationary categories, however to beat the vile poison of racism it is essential that I do so.)
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2007, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

You all speak of race however the species Homo sapiens sapiens is also referred to as the human race... how queer. If in its purest form the term race is a distinct group of people with their own language and culture then wouldn't there be a difference in race between Osaka Japanese and Tokyo Japanese?

If you are saying the Japanese, who, according to you developed for thousands of years completely on their own. As for your "evidence" those are physical subtypes, I didn't happen to see the "Euromutt" on there, if you happen to be a combination of all of those particular races... what are you? As well as those who are mixed in race, you cannot be one "race" as there is really only one race, we are primates, monkeys that have mutated over millions of years. I suppose I could better define the word race for you, A word defining groups of humans that have separately mutated.

If you're referring to a race as a group of people that are even remotely genetically different than other people of their species, then I suppose there are hundreds if not thousands of races. And Irish people are a race as they developed differently than the other peoples of Europe and the British Isles.
It's the same thing as Picts and Scots, Picts are native to northern Scotland while Scots migrated from Ireland to Scotland... Confusing isn't it?

Although you are speaking of "beating" racism, you sound a mite racist, or at least extremely biased.
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2007, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Woo and now the scales tip back onto the other side!
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  #30  
Old 12-21-2007, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Sayonara nippon!

Quote:
If you are saying the Japanese, who, according to you developed for thousands of years completely on their own. As for your "evidence" those are physical subtypes, I didn't happen to see the "Euromutt" on there
I never said that these distinct groups in the caucasoid race were never mixed. These are just that, distinct groups amongst the general caucasoid genetic make-up that evolved slightly differently.

Quote:
, if you happen to be a combination of all of those particular races... what are you?
I'm a mixture of Neo-Danubian and Keltic Nordic genes, however I'm not a geneticist, nor do I care.

Quote:
As well as those who are mixed in race, you cannot be one "race" as there is really only one race, we are primates, monkeys that have mutated over millions of years. I suppose I could better define the word race for you, A word defining groups of humans that have separately mutated.
Wait, just before you said that the Irish were a race, now you're saying that we're all one race? make up your mind please.

Furthermore, if you really believe that we're all one collective race, you tell the Japanese that, I support you 110%, because they majorly believe otherwise.

Quote:
If you're referring to a race as a group of people that are even remotely genetically different than other people of their species, then I suppose there are hundreds if not thousands of races.
By genetic racial variation we talk of significant genetic differences, for example Korean's are easy to identify over Chinese because of their wide solid faces.

Quote:
And Irish people are a race as they developed differently than the other peoples of Europe and the British Isles.
The people of Ireland were never isolated long enough to have any distinct genes.

Quote:
It's the same thing as Picts and Scots, Picts are native to northern Scotland while Scots migrated from Ireland to Scotland... Confusing isn't it?
The Picts and the Scots are the same genetic group.

Quote:
Although you are speaking of "beating" racism, you sound a mite racist, or at least extremely biased.
A bit racist because I talk of 'race'? The Japanese are the most vile racists on the planet and I am sick and tired of being criticized for being bigotted or 'hate-filled' for criticizing the amazing land of the rising sun.
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