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  #21  
Old 05-23-2005, 09:06 PM
connick connick is offline
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

My character was named Connick and I was a rogue. I was able to turn into squirrels and rabbits and various other animals. Quite fun as I recall.

There are plenty of long-distance forms of communication. I'm pretty sure the Japanese made good use of flag and hand signals, most likely in military situations. Native Americans had smoke signals, maybe something like that could be used. Otherwise I'd be content to have word spread by word-of-mouth and written messages. It would be cool I think to have people spreading rumours. Also it would be fun to have what I would equate to an information race, where rival factions would compete to keep vital secrets about movements and plans.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2005, 08:07 AM
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Galvorn Galvorn is offline
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

I know a lot of people see all these ideas I have described as a very daunting task and it could be, but I have some ideas of how to do them. First, I think you have to examine what is the simplest way that these things could be achieved. In order to do that, letís start with the models and animations.

Each character model has a set of animations for each task or ability it has, walking, fighting, standing, sneaking and so on. What is the basis of each animation, the model. So achieving this then boils down to the affecting the model.

Making animations is always a tedious task and takes quite a bit of time. However I would like to suggest models being made using a skeletal structure. In other words a model has a skeleton that can be manipulated and reshapes the model rather than moving each line or dot that makes up whatever is being manipulated. (This really shows my limited model knowledge, but stick with me ) So you could move an arm and the models arm would move and retain its general shape (note I said general shape, as I know sometimes some touching up would be in order.) . This should result in a little friendlier environment for those making animations and hopefully speed up the process as well. Thus allowing you to create multiple animations for the same skeleton, as the skeleton is the bases of the model. It is also my understanding that a modelís skeleton movements are based off of ranges of motion. Each shoulder, elbow, knee or joint has certain limited ranges or movement. The ranges are tracked in percentages or certain numeric values. This allows you to type in a value for a certain joint and see the change reflected in the model, rather the moving each body part yourself, or vice versa.


Now my understanding is that each player will be able to choose how there character looks to some degree. Thus you will have some people taller than others. Iím wondering if you couldnít have the height selection scale in a way. Rather than saying you are, tall, medium or short. You would have the model scale per inch between say 4 feet and 6 feet and the model skeleton would scale right along with it. If you could/did, wouldnít the animations fit the new modelís using the skeletal system described above? Because the animations would be based off of numeric values of the differing ranges of motions of the elbows and knees and other joints. Also all the ranges would be based off of the same skeleton? So rather than having to make three sets of walking animations for three different heights of one player model, you make one. So lets say you make bobís the modelís animation set. Hereís bob walking, bob talking, bob fishing, bob farming, bob climbing, etc etc. So this is bobís general or basic set of animations and it works for all the models in the game. You follow me?

If that could/would work, then a lot of other animations could be applied in the same way and it would reduce the amount of work you had to do overall. My only concern is scaling weight or body bulk. At some point the persons body bulk would clip the arms or legs, phase through and wouldnít look right. You know, Hungry Joe who is 5 foot 9 inches and weights 280 pounds. Swings his arms in the same walking animation as someone who is 150 pounds and you have Joeís arm phasing through his side at some point. So some kind of work around would have to be found, by perhaps raising the resting point of his shoulders/arms and limiting their range some. Thatís a thought for another time.. =)


Continuing on, I was thinking of the way to handle moods as animations sets. Every model has its basic walking, talking and whatever animations. This would be say a normal mood set. But when someone wants to use an angry mood you could load up the angry animation set and that would replace the normal animations. Kind of like the way combat animations are loaded when someone enters combat mode, or how wounded animations are loaded when someone is hurt. So then instead of walking= normalwalk.animation, it would be walking=Angrywalk.animation. I know thatís really simplistic, but I hope you get the general idea.

Ok Iím tired now and sleepy so itís time to hit the bed. Iíll have more ideas to share tomarrow..


Until then,

Galvorn
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2005, 04:15 PM
connick connick is offline
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Skeletal modeling is essentially a must in a situation with largely similar yet varied models. Another even more useful technique is "tweening" or extrapolating frames of animation based on outlines of the movement.

Quote:
Kind of like the way combat animations are loaded when someone enters combat mode, or how wounded animations are loaded when someone is hurt
Generally loading is done before you play...During the loading sequence. The animations are recalled from more immediate memory when you enter combat or are hurt.
  #24  
Old 05-24-2005, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Galvorn, you seem to be Very smart and talented, on these matters. Do you take any classes, or do you know them from experience?
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  #25  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Quote:
Originally Posted by connick
Skeletal modeling is essentially a must in a situation with largely similar yet varied models. Another even more useful technique is "tweening" or extrapolating frames of animation based on outlines of the movement.



Generally loading is done before you play...During the loading sequence. The animations are recalled from more immediate memory when you enter combat or are hurt.

Hmm so that means most animations are held in memory and adding tons of animations would hog system memory? I wonder if they couldn't be cached in the hard disk and accessed via swap files or somethinng. Then put limited restrictions on when a player could switch thier mood. I.e. not during combat, etc ,etc.


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Galvorn, you seem to be Very smart and talented, on these matters. Do you take any classes, or do you know them from experience?

Well thanks for the compliments! However if I was smart I'd already be in the gaming industry and talented, well that remains to be seen. Now I am currently seeking a degree in computer programming and some of my ideas come from that. Mostly though most of my ideas come from following game devolpment for many years. Reading alot of how other games were constructed and then trying to think of better ways to do better things.


As for chat discussion, I think chat boxes should stay. As I can't really think of a better way to that than what is already begin done. Bubbles over peoples heads just are not an effeciant way to handle chat. Not to mention bubbles could obscure your view during combat or you could lose important information if they faded out with mouse over.

I do however think the chat box should be seperated from your general information box. That's one thing that annoys me as I'm in combat. Information is scrolling by and carrying all my party communication with it.

Global chat however should be gone and I like the messenger idea. Again I think inn's and taverns should hold these duties. Giving players another reason to congregate there as they already will need to keep up there nutrition. I'm not sure about messengers in general having flags over thier heads so to speak. Perhaps some way to identify them for each city and taverns and such. Maybe they could carry the tavern house seal and each military would mark them in thier own way. So that every time you see a messenger it isn't very obvious who he is. Yet he would be recongnizable to the trained eye.


Ahh well that's all for now, I'm off to work soon.

Until tomarrow,

Galvorn
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  #26  
Old 05-26-2005, 03:44 PM
connick connick is offline
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Quote:
Hmm so that means most animations are held in memory and adding tons of animations would hog system memory? I wonder if they couldn't be cached in the hard disk and accessed via swap files or somethinng.
Right on track Galvorn. The general dynamics of loading information work in a manner not unlike what you are describing. It would be senseless to load an entire game into your RAM and effectively impossible with the enormous size of most games today. So like you said, the game is portioned into various individual libraries of information. With many older games like Everquest, or in fact any game with load breaks between regions or levels, loading is done at specific intervals and usually accompanied by a loading screen. Some games have made efforts to 'stream' information by loading and performing game functions simultaneously. A good example is the virtual elimination of 'zones' in Dark Age of Camelot. (However, you will note that there are still loading sequences when entering dungeons.)

Something that would be used frequently such as emotion animations would likely always be in memory while the game is running. You would swap out area/situation sensitive data (e.g. local textures/models, local ambient sound) from memory but you would want to leave the core components of the game (e.g. combat animations, character and weapon models,) fresh in the RAM.

Also I agree with your suggestion to separate chat and feedback. Very very very good idea! Developers note it!
  #27  
Old 10-01-2005, 06:40 AM
Zangetsu Zangetsu is offline
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

not really hard .... SWG got like that system in ..

when u type " lol " ur character starts laughin when u type /mood angry

ur character ties his hand and give u scary angryface ...

and when u type rofl he falls on the ground laughin etc etc ... they added moods and many many emotes "i give them 100% for what they added"

and simply this game can do it too ! and even better
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Big post down here.... sorry >_>

Unfortunatelly... doing so would pretty much kill the RAM, I guess, Zangetsu.
Like... Having those emotional things and all loaded, when you got to fight it'd pretty much lag the game until it loads... and.... That's not good.

Actaully... Something like SOME emotional animations... like the... Most used... And not spend more time with useless things... Erm... Some animations to sadness, to happiness, to most common chatting things. But nothing too much to not overuse everything.

Also, about the life of the npcs... Did any of you ever play The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion ? Something like those NPCs (and some of the mods) would be pretty good, and I don't think it would be hard... I just think that something like that is necessary to have some life in the cities and countryside... Simply put... they are just walking and chatting, and at night they go and sleep... some travellers should just... Travel during day, and sell some things, sleep at the forest or something if he don't get to an inn soon... just go passing... nothing too much, because the players also are part of the population in the cities. Also they should just... say some things like... "Hi, How are you", and be able to do a little chatter... and give some hints or something like that. I don't really think that is MUCH... I am not an expert, and to be a noob at this I'd have to get really better, but that would do good... I'm just giving my opinion, after all, but, I think that should be somewhat good enough... And about... They dying? I don't know, if someone attack the city, it shouldn't just stand there and wait for the players and military npcs to attack... Of course, the civilians should run away, but they should be able to die and be replaced once a week, or once a month, it'd add some fun to the game... and realism...

Also, I think someone may not have said much about what I'm going to say, but I think it should have something... Since it'd really have pretty good effect... About a personality... I know the one at Fable, even not that much advanced or anything, it work good... since, you kill innocents, you're bad, even a demon-like, you save, you turn to be a good and even angel-like or something like that. So... I think you should be a way to choose your personality and it be like that... forever, or you'd be able to change it once a day, I don't know, I don't say it like... demon/angel-like... I mean... someone who's sad... have a bad past and all... Even if it was to up to ourselves do our past and all, our character would stay the same face, even with a mood, or something.... So... A personality would come in hand, to have something that would work like a "perpetual stance" for the character, like: if he has a sad personaity, he would pretty much always have his head down, looking down... A confident would have his head and body always standing, always looking forward with a smile(or not) in his face... A happy one would be always smiling and have a warm-hearted face(or something like that) also, something like that could do the work of some smiles... It's just an Idea, but it'd be much better to see some different people, who walks with different ways and all.... (not mentioning the walking animation, just the way the char seems to be...) It's better then always walk past every one who's always the same as you... And, at least for me, it would be way nicer to try to meet someone who looks mysterious, or like me, and all...

The chat system for long range, should be something someone could buy or hire. Or something like that, I mean, you ought to buy or steal some pigeon eggs and make a mail-bird or anything like that, or a family should hire (or use someone from the family) to send messages, of course it should take some time and only be used for some sort of high priority messages and all, or it'd destroy the server having these guys and things going everywhere... but a hired-mail would be interesting for kill and steal the message or some sort.... Of course, message boards and all must exist on the cities and dojos... I'm just giving some raw ideas for everything.... I alone can't be much of a help...

I don't know if any said about this earlier, but ... I think that the items-carrying system should be something like what you can carry with your clothes, like, your equipment, and money and something more like a hidden weapon or a map, or anything not too big, and people should buy a bag or something to carry on things... Actually the player could hide it in the clothes or use it normally,and have some sort of a limit to 2~3 swords to carry, (only being able to use one of them at a time [well 2, if is there any thecnique that use both swords...]) and something like that to other things... you know you cant carry a bear skin , while using your sword, and also you can't carry 8 swords and 10 armors with you ( I know the game won't be like that, it's just a e.g.) so a bag where you'd be able to carry more things comes in handy....

I'd say plenty of more things but I can only think of useless ones, wich everyone knows so...

I hope I didn't say many things that someone have said before... Sorry, really, it's because I couldn't read it all before, and I want to help a bit, at least.

See you.
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  #29  
Old 03-19-2007, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

I really like the idea of mail carriers or messengers. They should be a very expensive service also. A cheaper solution to do this would be tavern message systems where the bar tender would be able to recieve messages and give them according to the players user name (e.g. "Sure I will give that message to someone what is there name" "Stan, ok thanks! I will make sure he gets it" *Stan walks up and orders a drink or something* "Hey, Zafsk had a message for you, here it is"). That would be ideal since travel is going to be more difficult and expensive then most games, as everyone would probably use the same tavern for quite often. Oh and Dojo's and family houses would likely have message boards that once posted on updated on every family house/same family dojo. The mail birds would also be a good idea for those rich bastards that needed to get a quick message out, or it could be one of those GREAT pets!
  #30  
Old 03-19-2007, 02:14 AM
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Default Re: [Q]Social Aspect

Yes, Mail birds would be expensive to obtain and raise mainly because it would require an expert to train them. The tavern thing makes sense too.

As for my opinion on chatting, the only way to get rid of the chat box is to make an in-game VoIP thingy that has range and all that jazz. This obviously has many disadvantages, seeing as not everyone has a mic and the technology and scripting required would be insane (and the RL neighbors would think the town crier was crazy or violent yelling all the time)
 


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