[Q] Acrobatics

[Tenshin]

Classes such as ninja relied heavily on acrobatics and athletics to escape or as a means to avoid detection. Such things as running up walls to reach a ledge, and pretty well most non combative feats you would see in prince of persia were used by ninja. I was just wondering if there will be an opportunity for our characters to learn such techniques, as to add more freedom to the world, being able to reach rooftops and leap from one to the other, run up 10 foot walls grabbing the ledge, or simply rolling into a hiding place as a quick escape from sight. Nothing too unrealistic like in the movies, but rather thing you would see in freerunning/yamakaze/parkour. (don't know if anyone is familiar with that)

[glowsticknation]

freerunning is those crazy brits who got all acrobatic with their morning jog and now can jump higher, run faster, and survive longer falls... in addition to the whole strength training... right?

in that case... it did take them several months to build up these abilities and resistances... i don't see any large reasons why this wouldn't be so in the game, but it would take time and practice

[Tenshin]

yes of course, perhaps similar to morrowind; where the more you jump, the higher and farther you can, the more you run the faster you get, add climbing and wall running (and of course the combat) and you have the funnest rpg on the planet.

[glowsticknation]

i can imagine they would add these things... although im not sure if it would be added as a built up sort of ability or if it would just be universal... or if it would be unlocked after learning certain ninjutsu...

im guessing the 2nd or the 3rd before the 1st... just because its easier to code and still moderately realistic

[selmo]

That sounds pretty cool though im guessing the controls would get pretty complex with all these skills.

[Tenshin]

Not really, it would basically be one or two buttons and conditions determine the effects, kind of like an action button. If you run to a wall and press the action button, you'd run up the wall. Things like that. It's been done in other games, but never in a MMO. I think merging action/arcade controls with an MMO spells success. Only reason I don't play any MMOs is because of the controls, I find them boring and non-immersive. But hopefully something like this will be added in the game.

[selmo]

thats been done in Gunz if you count that as an mmo. It was more of a arena shooter with lvls lol but yeah you could wall run wall jump and all that pretty fun stuff,

Another thing you could do in that game which i think would be good to have in tatsumaki is that you could use your sword to hang on walls/any verticle surface by jabbing your sword into it. Though maybe doing this to stone walls might be a bit over doing it,
but since plenty of feudal japan was wood building it might be cool to catch yourself jump catch jump ect... being able to scale walls.

[Tenshin]

I don't like that idea. I doubt any samurai would jab their soul into a wall. And ninja used special tools for scaling walls.

[Mokurei]

I wish I was a freerunner soooo much omg!

BTW: Gunz suckz :P

[ToshiMaru]

yes, Freerunning(aka Pakour) is the Uberest awesome-est. I saw the tv specials on it, and i got hooked. its amazing the kind of stuff they do, and heres a really good site on it - www.urbanfreeflow.com

and, i do hope that we will be abled to do some Prince of Persia moves, but it should be kept at a level that keeps it at realism.

[Tenshin]

I freerun :p

As for realism. the moves should be kept from being too flashy, and only have the most effective things. Basically all I want to see is a good leaping system, a good climbing system, and a good wall scaling and wall running system (wall running could be like four or five steps. I can personally do 3 though, but I know someone who can do five.) The least I's expect from the game is long jumping (4 directions), high jumping, rolling, and wallrunning, all do-able in near complete silence for the ninja, and with little noise for any other form.

[selmo]

I like kinda a lunge type thing. Where if you double tap forward you lounge forward/backwards/side-to-side. Those are always fun.

[AAronB]

Lol...... if you want people lunging all over the place! cmon guys :) there has to be a balance to everything. Lol >.> <.<..... plus i noticed everyone wants to be a ninja? I mean they are cool but.... They were definetly not samurai, wich is often times why it took more than one of them to kill someone. but hey what do i know! haha this is gonna be an awesome game..... the combat system will be incredible :) especially if they make it so depening on how good you are you could do cool stuff :) like a monk type person could catch the blad of an nme and use the nme's weight against him to toss him over his head and relieve him of his weapon ;)

(LOVES MONKS!! F* ninjas lol Monk for the win! ) :D

[ToshiMaru]

well, speaking of acrobatics, im thinking that backflips and frontflips would look cool. i personally think theres no real use for them, but they'd look good for fighting techniques.

[Chronor]

Then everyone would take the mugen style and then you'd see 1k mug3n27 and ect...

[Tenshin]

I don't know about that, in real japanese budo, i don't think any style used unnecessary movements like backflips and frontflips. Cool to see, but too capcom.

[Chronor]

I don't know about that, in real japanese budo, i don't think any style used unnecessary movements like backflips and frontflips. Cool to see, but too capcom.

True...and btw...I'd love to freerun as well...

[ppharoah]

well there actually was, and its called Karumijutsu if memory serves and I would love to see it in game as a skill.

[Mokurei]

Lol...... if you want people lunging all over the place! cmon guys :) there has to be a balance to everything. Lol >.> <.<..... plus i noticed everyone wants to be a ninja?

Well it would only really be for people who practice lots of ninjutsu. Also although everyone wants to be a ninja, they will be by no means the best at 1v1, they'll most likely work best by getting the first strike ie. From the shadows. A samurai who catches a ninja off-guard should be able to beat him for the sake of not having an overpowered profession, imo.

[Tenshin]

Well the reason Samurai could beat ninja one on one was because A ninja trains in a variety of different schools, with different weapons, techniques and what not, and Samurai train with the katana, all their life, nothing but it. Even their unarmed combat stems from swordplay... or vise versa... whatever.

[selmo]

Well I want to become a ninja because sykoi said it would be ahrd to do it!

Flips and lunges are i think a must for evasion and escaping froma fight. Buthsould be a ninja trained skill.
ie: anyone can jupm but ninjas can jump higher or roll faster ect ect

[Tenshin]

Flips are purely theatrical. Though it's good to be able to do them, has very little purpose in a real fight, as other similar, easier techniques are more effective.

[ninjaxmaster]

Flips are purely theatrical. Though it's good to be able to do them, has very little purpose in a real fight, as other similar, easier techniques are more effective.

That's true, though it would maybe be effective for someone skilled enough to get 4-5 steps up a wall could backflip off of it, though this would be a very very difficult action to perform. You could use this to evade enemies while being chased towards a wall. Even then the flip is not nessecary, a simple leap would suffice, and probably even be better, as a flip would cause you to lose awareness of where your enemy is. So, basically, flips serve no useful purpose...

[Tenshin]

Exactly. They feel good, look good, taste good, but serve no purpose.

[Munglai]

There are a lot of flip-based kicks in kung fu, I don't know about ninjutsu and karate and so on, I didn't do them for very long.

[ShininShado]

This is a good idea, in the game Dungeon Lords you can do actual forward flips and side rolls and incorporate them into fighting. Makes combat a lot more interesting.

[Kinjo]

Yes rolls are used in most of the Japanese Martial arts, a as a breakfall and a evasion technique. At the very least I would like to see rolls implemented

[Munglai]

Yes rolls are used in most of the Japanese Martial arts, a as a breakfall and a evasion technique. At the very least I would like to see rolls implemented

Rolls are incredibly important for samurai stuff, especially when fighting multiple people.

[Tenshin]

I'm bringing this back, it's missing sykoi's input. Will acrobatics (leaping, rolling, running a few steps up short walls to grab a ledge) be possible modalities for training? Will rooftops be an accessible means of discreet travel across a city? If a guard or govenment official sees you running around up there will you get into trouble?

[Sykoi]

I'm not sure about acrobatics, thats something that could be a wonderful addition, but also a pain to actually add... But as for running on roof tops? Yes, oh yes - this is one of the many things that I have wanted to see in Tatsumaki since the idea hit me.

[Tenshin]

good! What about simple feats like rolling and jumping (that doesn't look like standing in the air).

[Sykoi]

Jumping - yes, rolling... Don't know, I honestly don't see a real use of it ingame.

[Tenshin]

Rolling as an escape from an attack, a quick way to duck and move out of sight. It would be a great help to stealth. Thieves and ninja can use it to cross a corridor quickly without being seen. As I understand it's been a pretty big part of the basis of most martial arts... but mostly as escapes from trapping, which wouldn't be included in game. I think it would be useful still, maybe not first priority though.

[BigNinjaPimp]

jlkshaglakfhfadh

the mis-information about parkour hurts my eyes.

read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour


what rolling does is it transfers the energy from a drop (moving forward)
away from your knees and upper body.
Its one of the most simple, and useful techniques to know, but is extremly difficult to perfect (took me 2 years)

rolling video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2040423001461844580&q=roll+analysis


You do not roll after a straight drop down, you land on the balls of your feet, then use your leg muscles to absorb the shock, then use your arms to absorb the rest.
http://zanshinstudios.com/learn/images/landing4.jpg






also.......... when you do a passe muraille (wall run) up a wall, you only need one strong step for a verticle wall, the others dont do much.
The only time multiple steps are useful are when the wall is at a slant.

[Tenshin]

I just think, if there was a possibility to have some prince of persia style acrobatics available to learn from a dojo it would probably have quite a nice impact in the game, even if it is implemented later after the release.

[Tatsuke]

But what if I want to play a street performer or a circus performer, having acrobatics is the perfect way to do so!

By day a performer by night a spy, a thief....

I really think it would be a great addition to the game but I agree with Sykio it's not necessarily a priority.

And as we speak about rolling, I do white crane kung-fu (it's a style that influence Okinawa karate) we used it to break fall, to escape if we are grab, and also to get quickly back or feet when we are push or falling roll forward if you are push in the back, backward if someone push you in the front. I'm even able if the person gets to close and I'm rolling backward to kick is jaw before getting on my feet. And speaking of getting fast on our feet the flip-flap is great to do it.

And speaking of acrobatics in fighting have you guys never seen capoera. It's their style to flip around to be very unpredictable.

[HeniuriSaito]

but capoeira sucks, and it's just too much theatrical and all... in a real figh most of the movements are not that useful. some are, really useful, and the training that that crap gives to you it's amazing, but... in japan it didn't exist, and as I said most of the movements arent so useful... actually...well I know I'm not an expert at this kind of things an most of you here may know much more than I do, but the movements and all should be kung fu and karate based... of ocurse it should have many other things ... like... someone who can do a double-back flip(kidding) but... that shouldn't be the biggest one, since very few should be able to do different... or... just ignore me and do something else... I'm sleepy here...

[Tenshin]

Capoeira is a dance, but a lot of their flashy and less-than-effective moves can be used as distractions for setting up an attack. It can be very useful. I don't like when people say a martial art is useless. Theatrical, flashy martial arts were combative arts in disguise, forced to be practiced this way because of supression. So behind these flashy moves is the intent and knowledge of self-defense. It is not the martial art that is useful or useless, but the way one performs and interprets it.

But I'm really posting to ask Tatsuke a question... What's a flip-flap?

[BigNinjaPimp]

I've heard a back hand sprig called a flip flac before.

[Tatsuke]

It's when you're lying down on you're back and with the strength of you're legs and a bit a you're arm (tough you can make it without) you quickly get back on you're feet.

It's one of the most basic acrobatics in martial art, nowadays almost all games you're heroes gets up with it.

[HeniuriSaito]

oh yeah, that "forward jump" from the ground when you fall :D It's pretty stylish and useful to a fast get-up. But somewhat hard to do when you have no training at it at all.

Well, after all the trick to fool someone and do a surprise attack is something basic, but when you fight too much you get used to it and you know when to defend and not, so I think it wouldn't be really useful in the game, after all. As it against me is totally useless and I am totally capable of attacking while someone is trying to fool me... I got tired of this thing. So it'd be some sort of "useless scrippting" it could be not, but it's more likely to be with some time.