Japanese names

[Ashikaga]

I understand some parts of how Japanese names are formed. But not all. I was hoping someone could help.

I understand that their are family names and given names, and that family names come first. But I don't understand taken names or the naming structure for women.

[Delerium]

I don't fully understand the question. Family names are like last names. Last name comes first in introductions and then first name. Taken names? Are you referring to when a woman gets married? They can choose to keep their name or take their husbands name like in western cultures. It depends on which family the son or daughter is going to (a little different).The naming structure? Well there are common names that women have like Lisa or Sarah in English. This applies to Japanese. One modern trend is to name a girl a common name and pick less known kanji to represent the syllables.

That is basically it but I am sure my explanation was inadequate, shallow and unintelligible.

[Svage]

The naming is very similar to western style in my experience. You choose a first name, and the family name comes before it. sometimes there are several names, like old high class families will give their children several "middle" names, to honor several ancestors or such. Also nick names can be added in.

[Ashikaga]

I meant, for example, Tokugawa Ieyasu was not born that. He took that name. He was born Matsudaira Takechiyo. When he came of age at 16, he became Matsudaira Jirōsaburō Motonobu.
Then (wikipedia quote): "In 1567, Ieyasu changed his name yet again, his new family name was Tokugawa and his given name was now Ieyasu. In so doing, he claimed descent from the Minamoto clan. No proof has actually been found for this claimed descent from Seiwa tennō, the 56th Emperor of Japan."

[Delerium]

Sounds politically motivated, I think if you kill enough people, you get to call yourself whatever you want. It probably had to do with validating one's claim to fame.

[Svage]

yeah, In that time, changing ones name was not uncommon when you changed families, kind of an honoring of the new families ancestoral heratige. Kind of like when you go online you use a different name, and are known as someone else. I t allows people to act differently, fit a different persona, because they are no longer associated with the original name so strongly.

[Ashikaga]

Makes sense. How do women's names work then?

[Delerium]

I explained that in my first post. Well, as well as I can.

[Wundai]

So that covers names within the warrior class (The Samurai).
Did naming work differently for farmers, fisherman, traders etc.? (the common people)

I've even read somewhere that people in common classes were named after their profession, but I guess thats untrue?

[Svage]

I'm not 100% certain, but Most would be named the same way, but often I believe they were called by their profession as a title before their given name. so Ryubara Yama who was a blacksmith would be called Blacksmith Yama in situations not requireing his Family name, generally non-formal situations.

but this is my understanding, and may not be correct.

[Ashikaga]

Isn't the name order for women different. I know it is in chinese, so given name then family name. There are a lot of japanese women in history where there are no surnames, eg Oichi (one of Nobunaga's daughters).

[SunWuKong]

If I remember right, common folk didn't have last names.
To have a family name, you had to be part of the nobility (samurai).
Otherwise you would be Jubei from Akita, or Hattori from Shinjuku.
Locals would know you by your profession or nickname - Suchiko the seamstress, Moses the riddle master.

Women (Chinese and Japanese) are the same: Family Name - Given Name.

[Wundai]

Interesting :) Thanks for clearing it up.

Do you think this was also true for the Burakumin?(the lowest class), the outcasts where no Samurai could be seen near?

[Delerium]

I am not sure. While I think this is a valid question, I prefer not to talk about it. It is a very sensitive subject to certain groups and might offend some of our forum guests.

Thanks

[Wundai]

I understand :)

[minix2poo]

I meant, for example, Tokugawa Ieyasu was not born that. He took that name. He was born Matsudaira Takechiyo. When he came of age at 16, he became Matsudaira Jirōsaburō Motonobu.
Then (wikipedia quote): "In 1567, Ieyasu changed his name yet again, his new family name was Tokugawa and his given name was now Ieyasu. In so doing, he claimed descent from the Minamoto clan. No proof has actually been found for this claimed descent from Seiwa tennō, the 56th Emperor of Japan."

Matsudaira Takechiyo (Usually first you get a name for the childhood) →Around the age of 12 there was a cermony called GENPUKU. At this time you change your name from your childhood name to a mature name. So he changed to Matsudaira (jirouSaburou) Motonobu. The Kanji for the MOTO of MOTOnobu was a gift from Imagawa YoshiMOTO. But in this case, he was rather forced to use 1kanji of Yoshimoto, rather than it was gifted to him, coz at that time he was a hostile of Imagawa Yoshimoto (political reason)→Then after marriage he changed his name to Matsudaira Motoyasu. In this case he took the kanji YASU of his father KiyoYASU.→ Later when he allied with Oda Nobunaga and started to fight against the Imagawa clan, he gave back the kanji MOTO of MOTOyasu and changed again to Ieyasu.→ and later with receiving a title/post of the imperial court, he changed his family name to Tokugawa.

So normally for samurais it was common that you had a childhood name until GENPUKU, and then changed to the name it should be. then it could be changed again do to events like getting court titles etc...

Take the famous Takeda Shingen. He started with (Taro) Katsuchiyo, then at genpuku he changed to Harunobu, and later he became a man of faith and he became a monk and changed it finally to Shingen.

Or some change name after being adopted, like the famous Uesugi Kenshin. His family name was originally Nagao.


But of course nowadays its not common anymore to change names :)

Interesting :) Thanks for clearing it up.

Do you think this was also true for the Burakumin?(the lowest class), the outcasts where no Samurai could be seen near?


Well, Buraku are the places where ppl where forced to live if you belonged to the lower class. So ppl living there were classified in Eta and Hinin. Ppl in the Eta class were still treated like Human, But Hinins were not treated like that coz a lot of them are former criminals etc...

But this class system was introduced to Japan in the Edo era, so it isnt that relevant for this game that has its background in the 16th century.

Anyways, as far as i can remember Eta ppl were allowed to have family names, but it was a bit restricted and they were not allowed to have common names. the names were some more related to their jobs... and at that time ppl in the Eta class had jobs like burry/burn dead bodies, or execute the executions etc... so the jobs that no one wanted to do.
Later when this class system was abandoned they had the chance to change the names. Of course most did but a few kept their names.

An exampls: There is a japanese family name Hitokabe. When you write it in japanese kanjis you write 人首. 1st one has the meaning Human and the second one has the meaning throat. So if you are clever you might understand that this family comes from the former Eta class, and there jobs was it to cut ppls throat in executions.

Of course there are still a lot of other Eta names in todays Japan, but they are all fully accepted by the society.