[Poll]1st or 3rd [Archive] - Eyes Out Entertainment Forums

View Full Version : [Poll]1st or 3rd


ToshiMaru
05-12-2005, 07:52 PM
I saw that there were a great deal of issues about this too, so now theres a poll about it. This pole is an EASY Yes or NO poll, if you have anything to say, then post it afterwards.

Lodeclaw
05-12-2005, 08:45 PM
I think everyone will agree that we should be given the choice of first or third person. Everyone plays a little different, this includes visual preferences. Personally, I do better roleplaying when I can see my character. Besides, if character emotions are going to be implimented, we should be able to see what our characters are conveying.

nobody4422
05-12-2005, 08:58 PM
I would personally lilke to see it primarily in 1st person, but due to the difficulties of implementing melee combat, It would be wise to give people the option.

Mano
05-13-2005, 12:54 AM
it would just add some freedom for people :) and being able to look your character in third person is allways better than seein only uour hands ;p

+1 for 3rd person switch

OdaNobunaga
05-13-2005, 06:17 AM
well i vote for option of 3rd person view :D
so that we can choose between 1st and 3rd person view which i guess most players would prefer to have. switchable view is good, dont you guys agree? :P

connick
05-13-2005, 06:50 AM
I personally would like to see only 1st person, but it seems that everyone else wants the inclusion of 3rd person. I see your points and am willing to concede, though I think the sense of realism would be heightened if it were 1st person only. And it doesn't necessarily have to stunt the combat system.

Tekashi
05-13-2005, 06:55 AM
I personally would like to see only 1st person, but it seems that everyone else wants the inclusion of 3rd person. I see your points and am willing to concede, though I think the sense of realism would be heightened if it were 1st person only. And it doesn't necessarily have to stunt the combat system.

But if you go to real...then it wont be fun we wanna see our characters to combat moves and see there cloths.

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 07:02 AM
It can remain real with 3rd person view - we'll simply make it so any person, animal, NPC, etc. behind you or out of your character's field of vision will be invisible UNLESS they're moving fast and/or making a lot of noise.

This won't hinder anything, and it'll allow for stealth + good combat without the annoyance of switching in/out of 3rd person.

XiaoQiao
05-13-2005, 07:04 AM
Im all for more freedom. I dont really see how someone playing in third person affects you if you want to play in first person?

Surely giving everyone a choice of first or third person doesn't matter because everyone can choose which they prefer, rather than forcing someone who doesn't want to play the game in first person, play it in first person.

(I know the devs arn't forcing anyone to do anything it was just an example).

Edit: I think Sykoi summed it up quite nicely :)

connick
05-13-2005, 07:16 AM
Everyone seems to want intense realism in other aspects of the game, but being able to see from outside of your body seems to be one of the more unrealistic suggestions on the table. I can understand that a lot of you want to see your clothes and combat moves but I'm content to see what other players are wearing and doing. If the blind-spot method is used then there will be no detriment to gameplay and for that reason I will make a concession. 1st and 3rd is fine...Maybe 1st only can be saved for hardcore RP server. :)

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 07:31 AM
Well the reason so many people want it (To my understanding) is that not many people have Dolby 5.1 hooked up to their computers, nor can they feel a hand on their shoulder, or "sense" someone coming - all of these things are possible in real life, but not possible in a first person game.

Thats why I'm leaning towards the blind spot based on the speed / noise caused by anyone inside said spot.

Kingsama
05-13-2005, 07:47 AM
Well the reason so many people want it (To my understanding) is that not many people have Dolby 5.1 hooked up to their computers, nor can they feel a hand on their shoulder, or "sense" someone coming - all of these things are possible in real life, but not possible in a first person game.

Thats why I'm leaning towards the blind spot based on the speed / noise caused by anyone inside said spot.


I would love the fp game with the surround sound and perhaps a shift to 3rd person only during melee combat. Though i understand the limitations that would mean for the non 5.1 crowd. The blind spot system sounds like a great way to fix this though, perhaps another suggetion would be a sound compus of sorts simular to what you see in ghost recon. here (http://media.pc.ign.com/media/016/016525/img_1441891.html) is a screen of the game in which you can see a small circle in the middle of the bottom of the screen. When their is noise around you the area in which the noise is coming from comes up yellow, when you are being fired upon the direction comes up red. It is very crude in GR, but could easily be adapted to this game in order to accomadate the fp players.

Also, In the proposed 3rd person view what will happen when someone behind you makes noise? Will they be revealed? or will it be something more subtle?

connick
05-13-2005, 07:53 AM
I can somewhat sympathize with that. There will likely be times where I am playing with my speakers off entirely. My thoughts are this however: If someone sneaks up and attacks you from behind (be it in 1st or 3rd) you won't see them attacking you and you can only assume that the attack came from behind and you will naturally turn around. Likewise if someone is playing with low-end speakers and they hear the sound of footsteps, they would simply look around to see where they were coming from. Using 3rd person to view armor and combat animations is forgivable, but I don't like doing it to placate users who want to know when ninjas are approaching without having to make the tiny effort of moving their mouse to look behind them. That's just a player being lazy.

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 08:59 AM
Connick you don't seem to understand - you won't be able to see anyone sneaking up on you :rolleyes:

King: Adding a sound compass would kind of ruin the feel of the game - such a tool is more at home in a futuristic and/or gun-based game, not something based in 16th century Japan

Heres a (very) simple drawing (made in Paint) to show how third person would work (I made it 2d, I don't want to try drawing 3d in Paint :P)

http://www.eoeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19&stc=1

As you can see, anyone in front of you is fully visible, however - anyone behind you is slightly opaque if moving at a decreased speed, fully visible if moving quickly / making a lot of noise, and completely invisible if moving very slowly.


This is just a temporary fix invented on paper, so it may or may not be in the final version - but right now, this is the best solution.

Soil
05-13-2005, 09:56 AM
i voted for the option to 3rd person.
well, it's one of my main make or break issues. for the fact i've played many 1st person view games in my time and i enjoy 3rd person more-so than any other. i really like watching my character perform his actions and such. it helps me feel more immursed in the game. Especially since this game will have lots of martial arts styles. This will make me want to watch it all that much more. plus i feel 1st person is very old school and has a very closterfobic feel. you usually are only able to see 45 degrees in front of you and as for realism that isn't it. we are able to see 120 degrees normally but only 90 degrees are clear and the other 15 degrees to each side is perifrial vision.

So as in a game if i have to use 1st person then the view scope should be at least 75 degrees minimum. without making everything distorted.

which is another reason i prefer 3rd person, it naturally allows the 120 degrees of view but without having to distort the images. Plus we normally are able to turn our heads very quickly.. but in a game this usually isn't the case. were as 3rd person allows us to see for a short distance behind us at all times.

if people are concerned about the "sneaking" ability, technology these days have gotten to the point to where you can appear to be completely invisible for the rogue types, which 3rd person will not have any henderance or shouldn't have any henderance on sneaking for the ninja types.

connick
05-13-2005, 10:46 AM
I understand the concept. If a player is moving quietly behind you he won't show up. But a noisy player behind you will show up. I think this kills some realism because you shouldn't be able to see a player behind your character no matter how much noise they are making. And what's with the opacity? That sounds akin to magical invisibility to me, and not only that, but what difference will that make to a player? Seeing someone approach while they are slightly opaque is effectively the same as a fully visible character model, unless of course your vision is so bad that you don't notice the half see-through person coming.

3rd person is doable if you stick to the blind-spot method, but I don't like the idea of seeing stealthers if they are noisy while behind or next to you. You should notice the noise and turn around.

This also makes me think, what if a person is walking backwards? Let's say there is a solid rank of soldiers behind you and you are backing up. Once you back into them you won't be able to keep walking, and you will have no idea what is blocking your progression until you turn around. Seems a little odd to me.

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 11:20 AM
You'll be able to see them if they're touching you or something along those lines.
Don't think of the blind spot method that I mentioned as magical invisiblity - think of it was a fix.
Since you aren't the player, and you aren't ingame - you sacrifice a lot of your senses; normally just about anyone can tell if someone is behind them if they move around, or make a lot of noise - but if they don't... Well, you have no idea.

The opaque thing is just something I came up with - probably won't be ingame... But it lets you know that they aren't in your FoV.

connick
05-13-2005, 11:59 AM
I follow your logic. I guess we can work it out in beta.

SunWuKong
05-13-2005, 01:16 PM
Thats why I'm leaning towards the blind spot based on the speed / noise caused by anyone inside said spot.I like it.

And what's with the opacity? That sounds akin to magical invisibility to me, and not only that, but what difference will that make to a player? Seeing someone approach while they are slightly opaque is effectively the same as a fully visible character model, unless of course your vision is so bad that you don't notice the half see-through person coming.
I see partially-visible working as a fleeting glimpse. Something in the corner of your eye. You have a chance of noticing someone trying to be stealthy. But if your concentration is on the opposite part of the screen, you might not notice them. This would give sneaks a chance to re-adjust their movement.
example:
"Oops. I'm moving a little too fast. If I stop, he might not notice me."
Then the person can move directly behind their target and move more slowly.

Racoon of Hell
05-13-2005, 01:28 PM
I'm all for the 3rd person view with the opaque fix. It just seems fair for users with different tastes, and I'm one of them. Some like 1st person view, but that doesn't mean we can't let the others have the view THEY want.

Tekashi
05-13-2005, 02:22 PM
Everyone seems to want intense realism in other aspects of the game, but being able to see from outside of your body seems to be one of the more unrealistic suggestions on the table. I can understand that a lot of you want to see your clothes and combat moves but I'm content to see what other players are wearing and doing. If the blind-spot method is used then there will be no detriment to gameplay and for that reason I will make a concession. 1st and 3rd is fine...Maybe 1st only can be saved for hardcore RP server. :)

the games not oging to be RP server based or anything i think they are only using one server bro.

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 02:28 PM
Errr... No, we're going to have multiple servers - the single server solution was discussed already (Don't ask me where :P)

Tekashi
05-13-2005, 02:35 PM
Errr... No, we're going to have multiple servers - the single server solution was discussed already (Don't ask me where :P)

well dang it! dont be like WoW and make a RP, PVP, and normal server then i hope lol.

Sykoi
05-13-2005, 02:38 PM
We will have an RP server that forces very strict rules, has certain features enabled/disabled, etc. - but thats the only special server you'll see.

The thread is getting a bit too off-topic, so unless someone brings it back on topic I'll have to lock it ;)

ToshiMaru
05-13-2005, 08:24 PM
So...technically.....3rd person is the major vote. HA! now sykoi cant really take it out now, its part of the game. :dance:

OdaNobunaga
05-13-2005, 11:39 PM
regarding post 14 by Sykoi(Administrator)
yeah i think this is good, great job!!
now the only thing to me is the distance of 3rd person view, what is the distance we see from our back and front?
How far the killer will be able to hit the player? will it be inside our view even it is on partial visible? just some question to clear my doubt. :D
but i support your idea on post 14 :P

ToshiMaru
05-14-2005, 11:56 AM
Please do not go off topic anymore people, i dont want this thread to be closed for future members. Thnx

And Oda, why dont you just use the quote button?

SunWuKong
05-14-2005, 02:01 PM
What about having the option for a 3rd person view only when you click on someone.
"You've targeted Mifune. Would you like to enable 3rd person mode?"

This could keep the realism of 1st person, yet allow viewing of combat & interaction movements.
(A lot of people are going to want to take screen shots)

ToshiMaru
05-14-2005, 02:09 PM
Nice idea, but does that mean that only 3rd person view will only work in between battles, or confrontations?

Sykoi
05-14-2005, 03:28 PM
I thought about that - but it'd be kind of annoying.
If we did use that model, it'd be once you used an attack - not once you selected someone (We may not even allow selecting... But thats something we'll have to test ingame)

SunWuKong
05-14-2005, 06:15 PM
Nice idea, but does that mean that only 3rd person view will only work in between battles, or confrontations?No.

If they do a targeting system, you could also click on someone to trade, or just talk. Then choosing 3rd person would allow you to see any emotive actions (e.g. bowing, clapping)

ppharoah
05-15-2005, 11:37 PM
Give people the option so they can choose that way we dont lose players who prefer it one way or the other:)

Redb@ck
05-16-2005, 01:19 AM
Well it seems Yes is leading by a fair way, i think by having this choice it will please all parties, except maybe the devs ;). Beebe out.

Lejar
05-18-2005, 04:30 PM
I like the blind spot like Sykoi mentioned. It is realistic, and it allows you to see you character do everything. *Thumbs up.*

Sanctus
05-19-2005, 05:00 PM
Lol, I sure do hope they give u the option tho.

EliteSamurai
05-19-2005, 10:25 PM
3rd person

ShininShado
05-20-2005, 07:33 PM
Hello,


There should surely be an option to toggel 3rd person off/on.

Shin

Tiwokqua
06-06-2005, 07:16 PM
Totaly agreed with Sykoi idea (in 3rd person mode)

Tetsubo
06-06-2005, 07:28 PM
I prefer 3rd person but I can see how it would place a ninja at a disadvantage. I think 3rd person would be of great use in battle formations ie. keeping rank and file distance.

TheSporkedOne
06-16-2005, 12:16 PM
giving the option to have either 1st or 3rd person gives the back up incase either of those options (my guess 1st person but I've always been a stronger fan of 3rd person MMO's that or overhead) doesn't work. hopefully the programmers have time though to set up two views for everything, as I can't imagine it being a simple task (but I'm not that good of a programmer..)

keldoran
06-17-2005, 06:28 AM
in a mmorpg 3rd person has more pros than 1st.
the feeling in the 3rd is that the player can see the world around his char like a real vision, in the 1st the feeling is like robot: "left....right...up..."

Gryph
06-24-2005, 04:26 PM
I would be in favor of a Sykoi 3rd Person (c) system, but would suggest that in stead of


\---------/
-\-------/-
--\-----/--
---\---/---
-----O----
-----------
-----------
plus partial vision when outside of the line of sight for periferal vision, speed, and noise, we use

\-----------/
-\---------/-
--\-------/--
---\-----/---
----\-O-/----
-----\_/-----
-------------
-------------
plus partial vision when outside of the line of sight for periferal vision, speed, and noise,

to allow people to "see" things based on "touch" (being within a meter or so of them), in adition to "sound" and "periferal vision".

Sicarius
06-24-2005, 07:25 PM
If there were to be no 3rd person, how would one be able to see the Ninja sneaking up behind them? I would feel bad for all the poor souls that die because of that, well 3rd person wont stop me from sneaking up on ya

Sykoi
06-24-2005, 08:04 PM
There will be a 3rd person, please read the entire thread first :P
But you will not be able to see behind yourself (At least no players sneaking up on you), or anything outside of your character's Field of Vision.

Sicarius
06-24-2005, 08:09 PM
interesting so how is it 3rd person if you are not looking down at your character?

Slots
06-24-2005, 09:02 PM
If you look at the 3rd person view that GunzOnline uses its just right though the camera is in a bad spot....

you cant see behind you but it is thrid person though... you can still use it ot peek around corners without showing your head... which is bad...

ToshiMaru
06-24-2005, 09:09 PM
the camera is good yes, and like you said, its in a bad angle, but it would work. What about the view of the camera, height-wise? Would it be right behind the characters head, or be a bit above the character?

Sykoi
06-24-2005, 09:23 PM
The third person camera can be positioned however you see fit, however - you will not be able to see any:
NPCs
Players
Animals
And anything living

Out of your player's Field of Vision.

Sicarius
06-24-2005, 09:29 PM
would there be ways to increase you field of vision, or maybe mental awareness, so that you could see dull grey faded images behind you and stuff, like lets say someone has very strong chi, they can lets say see in 360 degrees, maybe not see with their eyes, but they know whats around them. I think that this would be a cool feature to implement.

Sykoi
06-24-2005, 11:34 PM
There won't be chi, or any magic system - so no

KazeKuroi
06-25-2005, 01:16 AM
Well, some people do have better hearing, sight, sense of smell, and touch. I can defenetly "sense" someone comming up on me, due to smell or sound. But, it is generally an awareness to your surroundings.

Sicarius
06-25-2005, 11:08 AM
Chi is more than magic, in real life we all have chi, our innate power as human beings, how do you think that so amny martial artists can break cinder blocks and the likes without using strength? they use their chi, their innate breathing power, and some strength, we all have chi, no one in real life has magic powers lol, but like kaze stated, we all do have innate awareness that we can train. We should be able to train our awareness i believe.

ShininShado
06-25-2005, 01:53 PM
I agree with the last statement. I've suggested a few times that this could be honed in game with a meditate feature, or maybe with training. I know one of the main points of T LAw is to avoid grinding and levels, but if this was done intelligently, it would add a totally new demension to this game. Also, chi, qi, and ki are the same thing, I know it as ki and is just the energy or life force someone or something has inside, all living beings have ki. I am all for incorporating ki into combat, and think there is enough basis in real life accounts of ki or a sixth sense helping some fighters become better fighters, and have an edge over others. Adding some sorta of sixth sense would make the game fun I think too, and would help with 3rd person perspective issues.

KazeKuroi
06-26-2005, 04:07 AM
Ki to me is best explained as, lets say everthing has a spirit, spirit being kenetic energy that can not be formed or distroyed. Chaos, a flow of positive and negative (yin & yang) energy to create balance. Ki is the energy of basically everthing, the energy behind the gravatational pull, the balance of your body, digestive system, circulation, strength. Who knows. But, generally it isn't there. Magic (ect.) is basically science not understood. So to include it would make the game more mystic then realistic. To openly believe in Shinto, Ki, ect. Is a role-playing choice. Science has not yet proven that there is Ki behind your blow causing you to break a block of wood. It could be just mind over matter. A lot that holds are physical strength back is the subconsious thought of "I can't do it."

ShininShado
06-26-2005, 05:42 AM
Hmmm, ki to me is living energy. There would be no ki in the wind, since it is not alive, there is no ki in a comet, or waterfall. There is however ki involved in the task of picking up a book, you exert force to pick it up... read it... and close it. Ki is more or less the energy of a living being and how it is used.

Hmmm, I guess I should mention that when I speak of ki, I speak of inner ki, there might be difference between the generic term ki and what I know ki to be which is more commonly known as inner ki. Inner ki is the energy within living things, which when exerted is used to perform tasks. This goes for sweeping your kitchen, mowing the grass, speaking, even breathing, though the ki invovled there is more or less just ambient. Other living creatures other than humans have ki, but have no idea of it. An insect has inner ki, as does a monkey, any time they perform a task, they use the ki they have within them. Ki and the stamina idea could go hand in hand... and as far as 3rd or 1st person pespective, I think honed ki could help with sensory perceptions maybe, not a bad idea.

Sykoi
06-26-2005, 10:47 AM
Just to clear something up... Ki is a Chinese belief, not a Japanese belief (It may have seeped over, but it was originally created in China and used in Chinese Martial Arts)

Read the [idea]Inner ki and Combat thread for the rest of my post.

KazeKuroi
06-26-2005, 06:42 PM
Correct Ki is the Japanese word for Qui.

ShininShado
07-04-2005, 06:10 AM
:yup: I'm all for a third person perspective.

Kiros
07-10-2005, 04:17 PM
I voted on 3rd person button option, because its fun to be able to use both perspectives rather then just one.

Kuzukago
07-10-2005, 08:09 PM
I actually prefer 3rd person, so i'm all for including the option.

ODA-NOBUNAGA
07-31-2005, 04:35 AM
Be cool to have it similar to starwars galaxies, which is primarily 3rd person but you can mouse wheel at any time into 1st person.

Leluu
08-01-2005, 08:34 PM
1st person view is more realism but i want to see everything my character does: every fighting move, every handshacking, every crafting action.
With T:LaWs combat system i believe it can be lots of fun to see each fighting move from every side of character and i don't want to miss that.

Zin
08-06-2005, 09:44 PM
yes, id like to see what my guy looks like decked out with his gear on :D

selmo
08-10-2005, 11:14 PM
I like 3rd person better but if there is like a backtabbing type thing in the game that could stir up complications if your always watching your own back

Jin
08-24-2005, 08:31 PM
Yea, I think the view should be like swg where you can zoom in to 1st and zoom out to 3rd by use of the wheel scroll mouse or some keyboard keys.

*EDIT* Opps just saw ODA's post, he said same thing haha.

Tenshin
08-26-2005, 09:18 AM
Well I'd like to play with a gamepad, and third person would make that a lot easier. First person is okay, but it's better for shooters. I think there should be an option.

Aucillion
08-29-2005, 11:14 AM
Third Person is just so handy for swordfighting like in jedi knight games I know first person is more realistic but I dont think you will become truely skilled at fighting like you might in real life unless in the game you can see your own character doing the moves so you can get a feel of the combos you will enevitable be using :)

ToshiMaru
08-29-2005, 03:05 PM
Third Person is just so handy for swordfighting like in jedi knight games I know first person is more realistic but I dont think you will become truely skilled at fighting like you might in real life unless in the game you can see your own character doing the moves so you can get a feel of the combos you will enevitable be using :)

yes, but sometimes, especially in a gigantic world, a 1st person view can be more comfortable than a 3rd person view. i noticed this in Ferentus. :bigeyes:

Tenshin
08-29-2005, 03:48 PM
But there's no harm in having that option. Expecially for a game that plays like a fighter, third person would be a LOT better. I personally think this should be like Jedi Knight: when you have a bow or projectile weapon, first person. When you have a sword, or melee weapon, third person.

ComicP
09-11-2005, 02:52 PM
YESSSS! personally, i think 1st person is annoying half the time. u cant see anything around you. i don't want to have to worry about anybody shanking me.

Simplexus
09-11-2005, 11:06 PM
I'll say 1st person + 3rd person, for those who want to which around, it should be more choices than just 1st person, in my opinion i generally enjoy 3rd person, the tilted above, behind locked view of my avatar. It's the best way to go, although some people would prefer 1st person, i don't see why. But my answer remains as 1st+3rd person all the way, if not only 3rd person.
-May the path of the above guide you.

Moustik
09-25-2005, 12:56 PM
I voted yes because everyone plays a little different . But i prefer the 1st person view and want to see my weapon or what I hold in the hands . Not a 1st person view like SWG or Everquest....

Kamakiri
10-07-2005, 10:49 AM
For what its worth, third person switching for the sake of options.

MattyQ
10-08-2005, 08:34 PM
I recognize that the 3rd person would take away a little from the 'realism' factor. However, I think the choice (I do not think it should be /all/ 3rd person) is important, merely for those who wish to take advantage of 3rd person mode. Personally, I think it would be much cooler to be able to view your character in say... reflections in water/metal/jade mirrors, etc... rather then in 3rd, if you want to see what you're wearing. (A'course, then that kicks the graphics up a couple of notches... <_< Bam.)

Dpedersen
03-23-2007, 04:27 PM
Well it needs first person because Fireworks are a guarenty right? So how can you see fireworks If the camera is low in the sky pointed down on you. Also I'm still confused whether this game is gunnu have bows and arrows which you would want First person for of course.

Zorbon
03-24-2007, 08:12 PM
combo of both ftw
1st person for 1st person things3rd person for everything else